Adformatie

 

reageer (60)

We use the terms Copywriter, or the Art Buyer or the Executive Creative Director, don’t we? Please grow up, girl.

illumovic, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 10:19

@illumovic. Try reading the article first before you respond. Please learn to read and understand what you read, girl or boy

PR Man, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 10:35

Dag Kerrie,

Ik heb niet het gevoel dat jouw verhaal op gaat buiten Engeland. Het is jouw Engels zijn en niet jouw Nederlands zijn dat dit inspireert mijn inziens.

Spin is een engelstalig uitvinding met vooral gebruik in de politiek. Spindoctor is ook anglo s(a)xisch. Ik geloof niet dat wij hier in NL denken aan Alistair Campbell. Of Blair. Gelukkig.

Ik kan ook wat inzien in jouw verhaal in een Engels omgeving. Inderdaad na dat zowel de tea lady en de cleaning lady geregeld zijn wordt het PR vak niet blijvend verrijkt wanneer gesproken wordt over een PR lady. Alhoewel ook hier is het meer een kwestie van gevoel voor klaasen eerder dan taal techisch. My PR man heeft dat niet.

Voor mij is het duidelijk dat er niet al te veel Nederlanders boven in het Engelse PR vak zitten. Moeten zij over sexism praten?

En er zijn vrouwen met echte snorren! Geloof mij.
I know I’ve been mixing with the wrong people again!

Regards,

Peter

Peter Woodward, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 11:21

@Illumovic - you’ve missed the point.
@ PR Man - thanks for getting it.

@Peter Woodward - thanks for your response. I’m talking about a Dutch company when I mention the use of PR Lady. I understand your point, that maybe its English rather than the Dutch language which creates these terms. However, I work in international PR and believe me, this happens all the time.

I agree, outside of the UK no one holds Alastair Campbell up as a golden Best of Breed PR man. He is just a quick example which I have used, and not the be-all-and-end-all of the story.

Sexism is just a way in - a tool for talking about how the idea of PR is trapped in the dark ages. I’m most concerned about that, believe me. When I moved here 10 years ago, PR was very much behind that practised in the UK - by decades. Really. Things have changed - but not necessarily dramatically with everyone.

And sexism - it very much exists in the Netherlands. Guys just notice it so much!

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 11:39

Hi Kerry,

Please realise that you yourself decided to enter the most sexist branche I have ever worked in. Why is it that only in advertising and PR average blonde bimbo’s seem to succeed? If braincell-capacaity matched the looks of an average advertising person the creative output would have to be a lot higher.

Be glad youre pretty and earn a lot. And don’t take yourself so serious,. In a shallow world like yours, you shouldnt

Chris, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 11:48

@Chris - you know what, I tend to agree. And thanks for the encouragement!

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 11:53

@Kerrie If you need any other helpfull advice please let me know.

Chris, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:01

Well Kerry, thank god we’re in Holland here: in Dutch the ‘problem’ isn’t that big at all. Are you sure this column is meant for the Dutch market?!

niles, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:08

@Niles - wow, really. In the NL sexism in business is a bigger issue than in many countries I’ve experienced. As I said, though, guys don’t seem to notice so much.

The point is - latent, unconscious sexism is so much an interwoven part of what people think PR is all about, that sometimes it’s hard to see the wood for the trees.

I’ve worked here - in both Dutch and International companies - for 10 years. This isn’t some knee-jerk opinion.

Again, as I said before, it’s not about the sexism (I can handle that no worries), it’s about what this does to the idea of PR and the development of the PR industry.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:22

@Kerrie As a son of a woman who raised me all by herself in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s I can hardly have any respect for the female protoype in the communication sector. Working parttime, scribbling some internal newsletters, producing a lot of internal communication shit. At the same time demanding her full-time workiong husband does the dishes while she’s at yoga. Seriously. The problem in the Netherlands isnt the sexist male population but the conservative-non feminist Dutch woman. Believe me. I smell a REAL feminist if I meet one ;)

Chris, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:28

@Chris - now there’s an opinion to get your teeth into ;-)

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:32

Chris? In waht way is you comment relevant to this article? Kerrie works 24/7 (I’ve seen her in action in many industry events and she on the ball from early morning to late at night). With that in mind, she writes this column, and you start talking about part-timers who take yoga-classes? Are you saying that SHE is a part timer, which I can attest she is nothing of the sort, or was that just a sneaky “shut up, lady” for lack of better arguments?

Dabitch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:38

Interesting discussion. From my own experience I agree with you. How about the following request from a CMO of a multinational: ‘I hired you because you are clever, but please give our clients we entertain the feeling they are cleverer than you…’ Will not even repeat the more adventurous suggestion at 3 AM. 
I cannot imagine a female executive talking like that to her ‘PR man’. Not even when she is drunk. Sexism is alive and kicking and not just in PR or business. I am not saying this because I burnt my bra or am a feminist. In general just lift one eye brow when experiencing such nonsense. Realizing at the same time it inevitably leads to loss of energy and quality.
Am I mistaken or are all the comments on your piece from men?

Joyce Huisman, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:42

@Dabitch - and with that, all hell breaks loose ;-)

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 12:42

In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, “stupid is as stupid does.” If you want a seat next to the CEO, then you may want to forgo the the Jimmy Choos and air kisses. Or at least, keep your look but deliver where it counts. If you don’t know your strategic direction from your glass of bubbly, then you may be in the wrong industry :)

Sasha Naod, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:27

Couldn’t agree more. Bravo!

mark, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:32

@Sasha Noad - nicely said. Of course there are people within the industry (of both sexes) who perpetuate the myth that PR = a crappier version of Samantha from Sex & The City. Nothing is ever black & white.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:33

@Joyce Huisman - Perhaps your artfully raised eyebrow of disdain showed that CMO the error of his ways. Most likely not.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:37

I bet Joyce’s raised eyebrow is a killer. I too have heard the “don’t be smarter than the client” speech, and wonder, isn’t that *exactly* why they hired me? Because I know my stuff? I mean, really now. *raises brow*

Dabitch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:45

Het informeren van anderen en het beinvloeden van hun mening van is een kunst. En en vak.
Door Kerrie wordt gezegd dat het vak in NL achterloopt vergeleken bij Engeland en misschien elders. Verder wordt door haar gesteld (wel is waar snor dragend) dat dat is gebeurd omdat mannen in NL niet weten hoe zij met vrouwelijke PR professionals moeten omgang. De mannen zijn neerbuigend en/of sexistisch. Als ondersteuning voor haar betoog wordt gebruik gemaakt van Alistair Campbell en “PR Lady”. Ik kan mij niet voorstellen dat dit soort voorbeelden de lading van haar verhaal dekken.

Iedereen zijn/haar mening. Echter met 40 jaar in NL is mijj mening anders.

Inmiddels hebben wij een contributie van “DaBitch” en iemand die 0300 ‘sochtends een oneerbaar voorstel heeft ontvangen. Suprise, surprise dat is mij als man ook gebeurd. Dat laatse dan.

Als lezer van een vakblad voor de communicatie branche mis ik enig nivo in deze discussie. Alhoewel de mannelijke contributies vandaag soms ook onder peil zijn vind ik de vrouwelijke contributies ook niet overtuigend.

Zelfs Kerrie zegt dat haar opmerkingen over sexism zijn alleen maar om een discussie aan te gaan over de problemen in het nederlandse PR branche

Misschien Kerrie kan jij aangeven wat de problemen in NL zijn en hoe jij denkt dat het vak zich zou beter kunnen ontwikkelen. Zelfs wie mag een snor dragen en waarom?! Als de mannen het probleem zijn zou jij beter moeten doen dan zeggen en nu breekt de hel los?

Kunnen wij (een beetje) struktureel denken en overleggen? Please.

Peter Woodward, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:46

Seems like you could be fighting another fight.

Chad Bilyeu, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 13:57

Peter, if you’d like to raise the bar on the discussion, please don’t use my name as a reason to ignore my contributions. Imagine if I replied to all of your comments only by giggling at “wood”.

Dabitch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 14:02

@Peter Woodward - great that you’re getting involved and expressing your opinion.

1. I’m talking about inherent, latent sexism in the PR industry - in any country.
2. I’m talking about the PR industry generally, how it can get stuck in a rut - and how people’s opinions of what PR can do get stuck in a rut. I’m using UK and NL examples as a touchpoint. This isn’t about NL/UK-bashing.
3. PR has changed. And continues to do so. Do clients, peers and the industry as a whole take this on board? From the comments above, I’d say the jury is out.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 14:06

@Chad Bilyeu - always a pleasure, never a chore ;-)

@Dabitch - every time you get involved in a debate, it seems you have to justify your (Swedish) name. As a journalist in the international ad industry, who gets involved in a lot of debate, you must be bored by this.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 14:10

@DABITCH
Dacht dat je een pseudoniem gebruikte om aandacht te trekken. Heb jouw contributies inderdaad niet over het hoofd gezien. Ging over Chris en wenkbrauwen geloof ik. Over welke bar hebben wij het?!

@Kerrie
1. Jouw argumentatie zou gebruikt kunnen worden in alle industrieen in alle landen.
2. OK je basht iedereen. Maar waarom beginnen met 10 jaar in NL en alles was decennia achterlopend?
3. De wereld verandert Niet iedereen heeft alles even snel door. Waarom is PR anders?
4. Wie boven is met jou eens? Erger nog met wat?!

Jouw vak is communicatie. Jij bent top. 50% beter dan de boys. Ik ben een niet sexistisch niet neerbuigend mens.Toch kan ik niet zien hoe jij aan je mening komt laat staan het overnemen.

Vind je dat wij goed communiceren. Ik zie dat je een mening hebt. Ik vind het niet goed gemotiveerd en niet goed communiceerd. Ik kan het dus niet delen.

Peter Woodward, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 15:24

Peter, Dabitch is my name, not a pseudonym. Now apologize for working on assumptions that reveal more about your personal thought processes, than my native tongue. Kind of like how Chris’ comment revealed more about his idea of PR women, than Kerrie.

Dabitch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 15:42

@Peter Woodward - Sadly the Adformatie column is short and doesn’t allow for all elements of all opinions to be fully expressed. An excuse? Nah, just the way it is.

Point 2. Because that’s how it was.

We aren’t coming at things from the same standpoint. You don’t think I’m a good communicator. No worries.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 15:45

I don’t understand what all these women are doing out of the kitchen???

allan, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 17:04

@Allan - you’re right. I’m off to bake cupcakes.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 17:19

@DABITCH
Ik geloof dat ik zei inmiddels hebben wij een contributie van DaBitch. Wel is waar met twee hoofdletters. Jouw naam zal vaker voor problemen zorgen. Waarom gebruik je niet initialen of een voornaam/achternaam combi? Maar ik dacht dat in dit column mijn thought processes OK zijn.
@Kerrie
Jij gaat niet in op mijn antwoord maar dat hoeft niet. Ik heb geen standpunt over het onderwerp sexism in PR (vooral in NL zei jij tegen Niels). Ik kan overtuigd worden. Maar dan moet er ook ondersteuning en motivatie voor jouw standpunt zijn.
Ik heb ook niet gezegd dat jij geen goede communicator bent. Wel dat jouw mening over sexism niet goed communiuceerd werd.

Trouwens succes met de cupcakes. Niet de deur open doen halvewege oefening. Ik kan er toch niets van bakken.

Peter Woodward, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 17:49

@Peter Woodward - were I actually able to bake cupcakes, I’d bring you one of the best ones.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 17:58

@Kerrie: what title do you use on your businesscard to describe what you do? PR officer? With art and copy it’s easy: you’re artdirector or copywriter. But in PR, I don’t know, really. PR person? At least that’s sexe-neutral. But it sounds just as stupid as PR girl/lady. PR officer? Sounds funny too, reminds me of police officers.. I think the problem is not only sexism, also one of language/terminology.

Astrid Prummel, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 19:53

The term PR manager comes into mind. After all, that is what you do…manage public relations.

...and cup cakes.

Allan, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 20:02

@Allan: Of course, thanks, that’s it. Right, Kerrie? Interesting discussion still, though.

Astrid Prummel, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 20:08

For communication people I agree in this discussion we all seem to miss some focus.

What I was trying to say, is that in the Dutch society as a whole, female labour participation is low, mainly in parti-time jobs, and interestingly enough, not because of male suppression but of female wishes. Many historians attribute this to the fact that we weren’t participating in the 1st World War, so there was no need for women to go work in the factories. There was no economic shift in the families from single earning male to both earning man and wife.

Personally, I find it an insult to my hard-working mother -who passed away at a young age because of this- that modern Dutch women call them selves feminists, eventhough within the economical framework of their family they don’t seem to get that being concidered ” worthy” by male colleagues means delivering on an equal scale, both as it comes to time (full time jobs) as quality.

I am affraid a lot of Dutch psuedo-feminists are responsible for the presumably daily encountered sexism such as endured by Kerrie…

Chris, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 21:57

@Astrid Prummel & @Allan - at the time my business card said PR Director.

@Chris - loving your thought process. Controversial.

Right. I’m off to make cupcakes.

Kerrie Finch, maandag 30 augustus 2010, 23:36

I have worked for several years for an international agency and also at a Dutch agency for a couple of years. In both circumstances, some people judged me based on my work and some made judgements based on the fact that I am a young(ish) woman. In any country, there are people who believe all the stereotypes and others who don’t.

The more we talk about it (in articles like this) the more we can tip the balance and have a more level playing field for the benefit of men and women alike.

Sarah Taylor, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 14:13

@Sarah Taylor
How is it exactly that men would benefit from a more level playing field? I assume you mean that men are better off now, so how will it be better if it is level?

Women have many advantages over men, but if they refuse to use them in the name of feminism, so be it.

@women in general
If you feel that you are not respected as a woman, you are probably not as good at your job as you think, not deserving a raise as much as your girlfriends think, not putting in as many hours as you think, having a lot more sick days than you think or insisting that you are judged by your merits even though you choose to dress like a skank.

allan, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 14:25

@Allan. I think that men would benefit from a more level playing field because inequality isn’t good for anyone. As much as women don’t like not receiving kudos for their ability because they are female, I’m sure that men don’t enjoy doing a really good job and then being told that they are only receiving praise because they are male.
I’m sorry you think that women don’t deserve praise for their work if they dress like ‘skanks’ (really Allan, was that necessary?) but I’m sure that if a man did a good or bad job at work, his ability wouldn’t be based on his fashion sense.

Sarah Taylor, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 14:43

Whether you agree with the points made in the column or not, it appears to be true that some nerves have been touched and sore spots poked.

Which is a good thing all round, I reckon.

Kerrie Finch, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 14:54

@Sarah
I did not write praise, I wrote judged. There is a difference. People praise you for your merits, and judge you on apperance.

Men at my work place are told to their face to dress properly. And when certain women dress like they are going to the beach, a company wide policy is issued instead so no one gets hurt.

There is a difference between men and women, women just don’t seem to realize they have it better and are more protected than any white heterosexual male.

allan, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 14:58

Hi Allan. That’s great that your work place are so progressive. Good for you. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on your last point though…

Sarah Taylor, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 15:11

Almost all of us, in fact almost the entire human race, are so not able to look past our own interests and issues that I feel it is quite logical for the world to be divided into two groups: males and females. (Other divisions on other subjects can be made, of course). This division already is the answer, regardless if we take a closer look at this discussion, the theme of the column or real life work places. And let’s face it: would we want it to be any different? Would a woman feel like a woman if no man would flirt with her? Would a man feel like a man if no woman would look up to him now and then?
It is what it is, I’m afraid. And that’s just fine… There simply isn’t an on/off switch for these things when you change your domain for a couple of hours.
So, let’s grow up and play the game (both work and the battle of the sexes).

illumovic, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 15:27

I see where you’re coming from now, Chris, and cultural/society is a point to consider. In a similar vein, over in Germany where women traditionally stayed home to cook lunch for their children long after they’ve reached middle-school age, modern mothers who choose to work full time are ostracized by other mothers for making this choice. My point is, women are individuals, and should be treated as such, just like men. But a gender-based title such as “Spin Doctor” vs “PR lady” removes their individuality, and boxes them into gender assumptions right quick.

see - “The Female Factor” in NYT;
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world/europe/18iht-women.html  for the story on German mothers, by the way.

Dabitch, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 19:45

@Dabitch. Thanks for the link. Did you actually know that it was the amount of female voters that helped Hitler to his majority during the 1933 elections?

Scientist -most of them actually female- attribute Hitlers popularity amongst German women because of his oldfashioned views about the role women should play, both within families as in society. In a quickly changed society where women had to participate in gaining income as well, lots of them felt disconnected from the expectations they had as little girls about how they would function as feminine persons. Being at work was not the ideal they had as a kid…

Chris, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 22:48

De cupcakes zijn nog niet aangekomen dus ga ik verder.

Een aantal observaties:

De kop van deze artikel is een vraagteken. Een antwoord in de vorm van feitelijke ondersteuning is kennelijk (nog) niet voor handen.

Wat wij lezen tot nu toe is een uitwisseling van subjectieve meningen/gevoelens. Onvoldoende om iemand zonder mening te overtuigen.

Kerrie ontwijkt mijn vragen waar ik poog enig objectiviteit in deze discussie te brengen.

Haar stelling krijgt gedeeltelijk ondersteuning van andere goed betaalde buitenlandse vrouwen.

Zou Kerrie’s stelling juist zijn zouden wij nu al bedolven zijn onder klachten mailtjes van slecht behandelde vrouwen. Zouden zij zich in NL hebben georganiseerd in een vereiniging en zou een aparte vakbond en zelfs politieke partij hebben gestart. De ondernemingskamer en de ombudsmannen zouden al hun finger opgestoken hebben.

Niets van dit allen. Chris vindt dat de PR industrie bimbo’s wereld kansen biedt.Kerrie is daar eigenlijk eens. Chris ziet sociale oorzaken DABITCH begrijpt dat.

Ondertussen de meeste werknemers in de PR industrie zijn mannen. Die worden per definitie het meest slecht behandeld, niet begrepen en ontslagen.
Ondertussen is hun partner meestal een vrouw die ook per definitie minder last van de PR industrie heeft.

De stelling kan niet kloppend zijn en is in ieder geval niet voldoende ondersteund en gemotiveerd om tot een gefundeerd en redelijk discussie te leiden.

Ik stel voor dat wij deze onderwerp over de 50 reacties helpen en dan klagen over het misbruik van cupcakes (van welk maat dan ook).

Trouwens Kerrie gezien jouw snor had jij al DABITCH’s NYT relaas gelezen?!

Peter Woodward, dinsdag 31 augustus 2010, 23:42

Sorry if I haven’t responded to comments individually. We’ve got a lot of client work on, so I haven’t had time for extensive responses, I’m afraid. I do appreciate any and all sincere, thoughtful input and debate - so thanks for that.

A couple of quick points -

I’d appreciate it if people didn’t put words in my mouth and assume I do/don’t agree with specific points of view.

It is presumptious to assume that responses to this column are a true 100% objective barometer of the PR industry. It’s a snap-shot, people! Just because men do/don’t leave more responses, it doesn’t tip the balance as to some weird battle of the sexes.

And if people can’t spot a serious comment from a wink-wink fun, non-serious comment, then more’s the pity.

@Peter Woodward - You have made assumptions as to who all the people commenting are, where they come from, what some of their sexes and/or nationalities are, and what they earn. This is naive. Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister of the UK in the 80s, but the supreme success of one woman didn’t ‘prove’ that sexism was a thing of the past.

Okay, I’m going back to work.

Kerrie Finch, woensdag 1 september 2010, 10:38

Oh you poor english speaking lady in the netherlands.. What about those american/english agencies based in our good old amsterdam, refusing to hire dutch people? (except janitors) because they are looking for only native english speakers? Perfect english not good enough for them? dutch people too lazy? too anti-authoritarian??  what do we call that? languajism? notnativepreferasizm?? I’m dizzy…

Lord Chuckles McSpanky, woensdag 1 september 2010, 23:46

@Lord Chuckles McSpanky - You have entirely missed the point. I neither request nor require your ‘sympathy’. You have hidden behind a pseudonym. I have no interest in dignifying your comments with further response.

Kerrie Finch, donderdag 2 september 2010, 8:47

Zo zie je maar wat er gebeurt met een column dat niet serieus/integer bedacht is. Het gaat van een tendentieus stuk tot uiteindelijk iets wat nog heel erg minder is van een vijandig concurrent. Dwz ipban is geen Mol ban waarom? Hoofdredaktie laat Finch door zonder feiten.? Waarom?
Of zitten wij nu toch boven te 50 en is de buzz factor toch wel ergens bereikt?

Peter Woodward, donderdag 2 september 2010, 21:33

Ik word GVD gedemoniseerd.

IP BAN, vrijdag 3 september 2010, 14:02

Moraalridders als een Peter Woodward, Krek, F. Ake moeten hier en nu meteen IP ban krijgen!

IP ban, vrijdag 3 september 2010, 14:57

Ach meneer Mol bij jou valt er weinig te redden geloof ik! Maar ik laat jou mij eenmaal uit mijn tent lokken. Maar een ridder hmmm! Misschien Knights of White Satin.

Trouwens ik ben er mee eens dat “demoniseren” een mode woord dreigt te worden. Bij Fortuijn of Wilders heeft dat woord een functie. Maar bij Mol? Dan heeft u zich enigzins overschat?

Jij zou misschien een keer (het liefst op een aparte draad) eens uitleggen wie je bent en je achtergrond en vooral waarom jij kiest steeds voor een opvallend confronterend gedrag met een taal gebruik waar ik met vele zonen nooit last van heb gehad. Slecht gedrag vind je wat hebben. Sterker nog doe jij voor een reden. Het bevredigt iets in jou. Dat het het tegenovergestelde doet bij anderen is ook jouw doel.

Communicatie is zowel een kunst als een vak. Het is natuurlijk nooit belangrijker dan de boodschap. Op een of andere manier heb jij dat niet door. Niet alleen is jouw boodschap de laatste tijd beneden alle redelijke normen maar ook vanuit het vak gezien niet eens vakkundig. Met jouw tietenverhaal gisteravond bereik jij wat bij wie voor welke redenen?

Een kind met jouw gedrag zou vragen voor zorg en aandacht. Maar hoe oud ben jij? Dat verdien je niet meer.

Nu zal jij zelf ervaren waar jouw eigen besluiten jou naartoe brengen. Net als de rest van ons natuurlijk.

Het ga je goed! Maar dat moet je zelf ergens afdwingen.

Peter Woodward, vrijdag 3 september 2010, 19:54

Okay sure I was affraid to be hit by the brittish expat maffia-mob.. My real name is not more ridiculous to your ears thant the one I gave you… My name is Hertje and I still think that your agencies should hire SOME DUTCH PEOPLE FOR A CHANGE. and Maybe in 10-20 years.. might you consider hiring sone dutch females??? And I mean non-models… You know talented people? real people? oh forget it…

Hertje Zollner, zaterdag 4 september 2010, 1:39

It’s probably someone from moldavia that’s answering these comments anyway…

Hertje Zollner, zaterdag 4 september 2010, 3:12

@Hertje Zollner - Your comments don’t make any sense. Your assumptions are misdirected, naive, ludicrous, patronising, and incorrect.

Kerrie Finch, zaterdag 4 september 2010, 21:12

@Kerrie
“Your assumptions are misdirected, naive, ludicrous, patronising, and incorrect.”
Pffffffffffffffff…

priscilla, zaterdag 4 september 2010, 21:53

The comments by some male chauvinist pigs perfectly underline Kerrie’s statement. Nothing has changes since the times of Man Men. ;)

Jeroen Mirck, donderdag 23 september 2010, 11:16

Mad Men!

gnaues, donderdag 23 september 2010, 12:01

This program looks ftntasaic, this is just the type of thing we need to see in ALL school classrooms these days, with NAPLAN and the anxiety that children must be picking up from teachers/parents and school staff about performance and scores this program could go a long way to helping children deal with stress, anxiety and outside pressures.  Well done ladies!

Kelaine, maandag 18 juni 2012, 23:05